essay explaining the context of the Charleston shooter bullshitting about “they areraping our women” as motive for his actions.
**TW for minimizing female-on-male rape, description of non-consent by perpetrator, and denial of realities of rape**
I didn’t think I’d ever end up having to have this conversation with anyone on my FB. But it happened. not only was the OP already not a good thing, implying that women sexually forcing themselves on men isn’t rape because erect and ejaculating penises are involved; a few comments down a woman joins with a comment describing a situation in which she proceeded to sexually touch a man despite lack of positive signals and some negative non-verbal signals, using the word rape in scarequotes. It didn’t get any better from there:
(transcript at bottom of post)
I should have left that conversation at that point (well, I should have left when I said I would). I didn’t, and it went on and got worse; at one point, she decided to interpret my second-to-last comment visible above as me asking a rape victim out of the blue whether they orgasmed during their rape, and tried to accuse me of being turned on by other people’s rapes (and when I corrected the admittedly badly phrased comment to say I meant I had listened to survivors talk about this, she accused me of lying). I did finally leave (and I’m sure the thread is still going on) after being told “Go find a rape victim to drill. Pun intended”.
I don’t know why I’m posting this, other than I guess to document this surreal experience. Because seriously, WTF.
– – – – – – – – – –
Person1: I still suffer a considerable amount of cognitive dissonance over the use of the term “rape” for the act of a woman forcing a grown man to have sex with her — with him becoming aroused, having intercourse and reaching orgasm.
To most young men, tales of the situation probably provoke laughter more than empathy. I have to wonder if that doesn’t cheapen the word.
That it happens, and that the men it happens to are emotionally affected, I have few doubts. But we definitely need some different terminology.
Person2: That is part of the difficulty in men reporting rape. No one believes them.
Person2: I don’t know of a better word for it. Sex without consent.
Jade Hawk: sex without consent is rape. doesn’t matter whether it’s men raping women or women raping men, it’s still rape. it’s the violation of bodily autonomy. Why should we not use the correct term for it?
Jade Hawk: oh and btw, the thing about arousal and orgasms is a common denialist trope targeted at women; because sometimes women, when they’re raped, have orgasms. That doesn’t make it not rape.
Same thing applies to men: eliciting a physical reaction from your nether parts does not constitute consent.
Person3: Yeah, I agree that it’s still rape. It is basically the same violation, even if viewed differently by most men.
Person4: I “raped” my ex at the time. We had just broken up and I was devastated. We rested in bed together after a long fight, sort of cuddling but very cautiously so. I started touching his hair and skin. Trying to be romantic, trying to.show love and change the course. He didn’t move or respond at all.
I somehow found myself giving him.head. he told me I shouldn’t and didn’t respond much other then a moan… half pleasure, half. “Stop it.” He came really hard and curled up in a ball. Moments later he cuddled me tighter and asked why he can’t ever say no to me. The power I felt was very strong and feminine, and very erotic. We stayed apart for about another year, occasionally sleeping together. I brought it up a few months later unsure if I.should feel guilty. He said at the time it felt good but.he didn’t want it, but at present it didn’t bother him. The conversation served.as a segway for some sex and roleplay.
It was wrong of me to ignore his signs even if he didn’t explicitly day no, but we’re back together now and to this day his oral rape is a fond and sexy memory for both of us. It’s the only.time I’ve done that.
Person4:file that more under poor decision making.than.actual rape.. that’s what.he meant when he said I shouldn’t.
And I.don’t.know about ant of you but I have been made very sexually uncomfortable by men and women alike. I.can’t imagine anyone, male or female being relaxed enough to orgasm during a sexual assault. Ever.
Jade Hawk: your failure to imagine something doesn’t constitute a fact or even a valid argument
Person4: I didn’t say it did. I’m speaking personally. Jeez.
Jade Hawk no, “i can’t imagine anyone” is not speaking personally, it’s projecting.
I’m done with this. rape apologia is more than I can deal with today
Person4: No. Its saying.that infant imagine something.
Person4: I can’t
Person4: And who are you to say I condone or sympathize with rape or rapiats?
Because I’m not so much of an animal that even if I’m emotionally distraught if someone touches my.junk I cant help but be turned on? Earth is not some hentai film. We are not ruled by sexual urges.
Person4: We don’t.scream in pleasure during rape. We.scream for.help. now.go.watch.la blue.girl or.some.shit. crazy woman.
Jade Hawk: victims of rape who experience involuntary orgasms are animals ruled by their sexual urges?
“yeah, you’re totes not a rape apologist. and ableist, to boot
Person4: There is no such thing.as involuntary orgasm. Orgasms are a result.of.sexual pleasure.
Person4: She needs to.enjoy.it.to.come. that simple. If it were that easy to.orgasm then.women.wouldn’t complain that they can’t.relax enough in bed to enjoy.sex.
Jade Hawk: ypou’re a rape apologist and science denialist: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1353113103001536
Person4: Jade implying a rape victim enjoys her rape enough to.orgasm is fucking offensive as hell.
And.you’re a cunt. There. All your feminist dreams about me.have.come.true.
Now.why don’t.you.go.ask.a.rape.victim if.she.came or not. Insensitive Fuck. Shit .
Jade Hawk I have that’s how I know that this happens. Denialist asshole
Person4: Wow. That’s really insensitive. And your link directed me to a page about pesticides…
Jade Hawk you’re right. me listening to rape victims is super insensitive. [/sarc]
also, if a link to sciencedirect gives you a page on pesitcides, you have a virus problem
When I was 17, I spend a year as a student in rural Canada, which resulted in a lot of culture shock. But you’re told about that when you prepare for your trip, and also that the Canadian families are very likely going to be much more religious than what we were used to. The kids who went to the USA got similar speeches, and sometimes their experiences were similar to mine. Very often however, the experiences went like this instead:
Polish Exchange Student in US: My Half-Year of Hell With Christian Fundamentalists
For example, every Monday my host family would gather around the kitchen table to talk about sex. My host parents hadn’t had sex for the last 17 years because — so they told me — they were devoting their lives to God. They also wanted to know whether I drank alcohol. I admitted that I liked beer and wine. They told me I had the devil in my heart.
My host parents treated me like a five-year-old. They gave me lollipops. They woke me every Sunday morning at 6:15 a.m., saying ‘Michael, it’s time to go to church.’ I hated that sentence. When I didn’t want to go to church one morning, because I had hardly slept, they didn’t allow me to have any coffee.
One day I was talking to my host parents about my mother, who is separated from my father. They were appalled — my mother’s heart was just as possessed by the devil as mine, they exclaimed. God wanted her to stay with her husband, they said.
When Randy Liang wanted to study in the U.S., his parents’ friends at a Christian group that provides medical and small business services in Shanxi Province recommended Ben Lippen. He enrolled in January, 2010, as a sophomore, largely unfamiliar with the Scriptures and the English language.
He “really hated” the school at first, he said. “I thought they were trying to force me to be Christian. I couldn’t understand what they’re talking about. I thought, ‘This is boring.’”
Liang adjusted as his English improved and he joined teams in four sports: football, wrestling, cross-country and track. After watching a creationist video in Bible class, he developed doubts about evolution. Now a senior, he prays with teammates before games, he said. He lives in a teammate’s home, and prays with the family for success on exams.
One of the most shocking cases alleges that at least four exchange students suffered sexually abuse over the years by the same host father — even after the first student to stay with the host reported the incidents, NBC reported.
“He said ‘this is American culture,’ and I should get used to it,” Christopher Herbon of Germany told NBC News.
Jarbola said a girl from Norway, who asked to be identified only by her first name, Anne, tried to alert officials that she and some of the students were in dire straits.
Anne told CNN she had school officials send an e-mail to Aspect in October explaining how bad things were and including photographs of the inside of the home where she was placed. The home was later condemned by the city.
Anne’s high school principal took her in, but other students weren’t as lucky and spent nearly the entire school year in unsafe homes, until Children and Youth Services was tipped off about a month before school ended, Jarbola said.
Jarbola, who said Anne’s e-mail is now evidence in the criminal investigation, told CNN that when welfare officials interviewed the students, one was so hungry he wept when they gave him pizza during questioning. In all, five of the students were removed from homes where they’d been placed by Aspect.
and even though the last article is peppered with references to how very seriously the State Department is taking the cases, the end result of that taking it seriously was that the State Department requires prospective host-parents to photograph their houses and provide “outside” references, and not much else.
And exchange programs are not the only way in which bringing foreign kids to the USA can end up extremely dangerous. For one, the same reasoning that leads Fundies and Fundie schools to try to get foreign students to come to the US is also fueling the adoption-craze among fundie Christians. In the past, there have been reports of abuse related to the Fundie “To Train Up A Child” abuse manual, or the “adoptions” of Haitian “orphans” post-earthquake which turned out to be kidnappings, and other such reports. Now, there is another report about “re-homing” children, which is basically about treating international adoptees like pets, to be dumped when they become inconvenient, often onto the first person who volunteers to take them in (which, unsurprisingly, sometimes turn out to be child abusers of various kinds); and again we hear of the complete lack of oversight by US government.
It’s no wonder than that many countries are wary of sending minors to the USA. In the past, some exchange programs stopped offering exchanges to the USA; and many countries also block adoptions to the US, or insist on being able to track the well-being of these children themselves.
Despite evidence for rape, police forces raped teen to take back her accusation; her rapists then goes on to rape other women: Police allow serial rapist to continue predating after charging teen for falsely reporting rape
Teen who was impregnated during rape is being slutshamed by her neighbors: Indiana Town Shames Rape Victim, Speculates About Her ‘Promiscuous Behavior’
A victim of rape recounts her attempts of dealing with the trauma,and how she was doubted by both counselors and doctors and ended up being re-victimized over and over by her university: An Account Of Sexual Assault At Amherst College
Female workers in South Korea exhausted by constant vigilance against sexual aggression and harassment: Sexual harassment in Korea: 24 hours on constant lookout tire women
Allen West and Michael Savage have decided that sexual assault in the military isn’t actually a problem because of redefinitions of “sexual assault” to include invitations for beer; and anyway, these women are probably just making it up anyway. As far as West and Savage are concerned, this is just an attempt by the “Khmer Rouge Feminists” to “take over the military” in a “coup”: Fox’s Allen West Uses Military Sexual Assault Epidemic To Attack Democrats And Decry Women In Combat Units
Ok, so this is gonna be finally that essay on Toxic Masculinity and sex that I said I was gonna write.
Sex and Toxic Masculinity are an idiotically complex, convoluted and messy topic. This is because Manly Men are supposed to have lots of sex; in order to do that however, they have to be involved with those horribly deficient and nasty creatures called “women” (because having sex with men is what women do*, and is therefore feminine and therefore must be avoided at all costs by Manly Men). Prolonged exposure to these “women”, and being seen in their company, and worst of all enjoying their company could lead to ball-shrinkage and possible loss of penis, and therefore must be avoided at all costs. So, how do you have lots of sex with women, but still avoid being contaminated by their womenness?
The answer usually is to treat sex as something you take from and do to women, as opposed to something you do with and for them. Once women become the antagonists in the sex-game, sex not only stops being feminizing, but becomes actively masculinizing because it means having men “conquer” and “vanquish” women; when sex happens, it means the man won.
This has several effects on people. For one, the constant need to keep sex antagonistic requires a vast amount of toxic sludge being poured onto women, and relationships with them. Once upon a time, being married was considered a must for a gentlemen and properly established man. Now it’s a trap existing solely for the purpose of “taming” the man-beast, which men are taught to avoid. It still isn’t actually true that men don’t want relationships and commitment, but the culture teaches them that they aren’t supposed to want them, and in the most toxic environments are pressured into either avoiding them completely, or twisting them to their benefit (i.e. reducing the partner to a domestic slave and incubator either verbally or in fact; cheating; pretending that it’s not a relationship, but rather this crazed chick chasing after you).
Two, the interpretation that sex is antagonistic puts rape on a continuum with actual sex. When sex is not ever considered to be actually mutually consensual, but rather something that a man tricks or pressures a woman into doing(learning how to lower her defenses by various means is the premise of this nasty little book, which is a prime example of the antagonistic interpretation of sex), rape simply becomes the most extreme form of “getting sex from a woman”; and the concept of date rape becomes invisible altogether, since without the concept of true consensus, the only difference between sex and rape is physical force.
Three, toxic masculinity shapes the way women who grew up with it learn to interact with men, and with other women. This ranges from a form of self-hatred (similar to the self-hatred exhibited by black kids in the doll tests) and hatred of other women that causes some women to prefer being “one of the guys” rather than make friends with other women, to extreme territoriality in relationships (i.e. if your boyfriend tries to devalue you and your relationship by demeaning you and cheating on you, your only defense becomes keeping your man on a very short leash, and keeping all other women (except those “loyal” and “subordinate” to you) as far away as possible from him; remaining single is not an option), to accepting the role of evil harridan, because it is the only way you can get cooperation out of a toxic male**. IOW, toxic masculinity creates toxic femininity. And this in turn validates and strengthens Manly Men’s low opinion of women. A fucking vicious cycle.
– – – – – – – – – – – – –
*no, I have no idea how lesbians figure into this, precisely.
**all of these are situations I got to personally witness in this glorious place called ND. Seems almost the only exception were the religious folks, where the guys treat the women like precious, pure and fragile dolls, and the women acted this angelic role out *facepalm*