Because this shit totally needs more people’s opinions added

I’m not necessarily interested in prolonging this by now almost completely pointless discussion, but there’s a list of things in and around this elevator-clusterfuck that are eating my brain. So I’m dumping my thoughts on them here, so I can stop thinking about them (which in any case was the original point of this blog, anyway):

1)so because you behaved like a Decent Human Being you’re now old and single? well, that sucks. you still don’t get an exception to the Decent Human Being rules, just because assholes end up with girlfriends and you don’t. I mean, I’m dirt-poor and will likely remain so forever. Being poor is not just emotionally exhausting and depressing, it’s sometimes downright unhealthy. Doesn’t mean I get an exemption from the Decent Human Being rules and should start a religion, sell snakeoil, or otherwise scam old ladies out of their social security, even if some assholes successfully got rich that way.

2)hiding behind the autism spectrum is just fucked up. Aspies, being actually oblivious to most social clues, don’t usually internalize the sort of behavior that a) says that isolating and cornering a woman will make more compliant, and b)loudly and stubbornly insists that they should be allowed to behave like that because they don’t see a problem. Most Aspies catch on right quick that they’ve no fucking clue how other people and society as a whole work; and because they’re immune to the sort of toxic masculinity that bars them from feeing empathy, they actually do want to understand and function well, so they learn (either with help, or if they’re very high-functioning, by themselves through observation) by rote which behaviors seem acceptable and which don’t. If Elevator Man had really been an Aspie, he’d be grateful for the anonymity and ability to learn a few more things about human interaction (such as: enclosed spaces are perceived as dangerous; cold-propositioning is perceived as creepy). Plus… would an Aspie who heard “I’m going to sleep” hear anything other than “I’m going to sleep”?
No, Elevator Man and his defenders may be socially inept, but they’re neurotypical; or at least, neurotypical enough to have absorbed quite a bit of toxic masculinity, enough to hear “I’m going to sleep” as “I may be saying I’m going to sleep, but if a man suggests he’d rather I do something else, I’ll totally agree to that; because that’s how women behave”. And enough to feel that they should be allowed to behave in exactly the way they think “alpha males” are allowed to behave, and are resentful when being told that they shouldn’t (see point 1).

3)This shit isn’t going to go away if the first thought on every guy’s mind remains that women are for hitting on, and it’s unfair to let them in if there are going to be rules that might make hitting on women more difficult.

4)While depression is sometimes triggered by events out in the environs, chronic depression doesn’t get cured by altering the environs. I’m not going to stop being depressed even if I manage to lose th 30 or so pounds that I’ve gained over the last few years. And similarly, a single, chronically depressed man isn’t going to stop being depressed if women start dating him, fucking him, and being in relationships with him. In fact, it might just make it worse. Because people who can handle dealing with deep, chronic depression on a daily basis are far and few between, considering the ridiculous amount of willpower and internal peace/steadiness that requires; add to that the neediness of someone who believes relationships will cure his depression, and you have a psychological load few people will be able/willing to take on. And so, it will, sooner or later, blow up spectacularly, possibly worsening the thought-patterns that make the depression what it is. And sometimes “blow up” means the dude snaps completely, and we read in the paper about another murder-suicide by a guy who couldn’t handle a break-up.

5)The older I get, the more I realize that young people (including myself before about the age of 25) are clueless twits. the Dunning-Kruger (sprinkled with a heaping dose of entirely unwarranted optimism about the world, and (subconscious) desire for a cookie from People That Matter)can be smelled from miles away. And it makes me want to smack them over the head with their own words once they get older (except that some of them might not actually grow out of their youth-induced cluelessness); because of course I (and other people who’ve been through this) are just being condescending and paternalizing when we point out that they don’t have the life-experience or even time enough to absorb enough theoretical knowledge to really have a well-rounded and well-founded opinion on the complex issues in this world

8 comments on “Because this shit totally needs more people’s opinions added

  1. The elevator man may be a victim of sporadic reinforcement if he occasionally succeeds with such approaches, or alternatively may have masochistic personality disorder, if he doesn’t. I suspect the former, because I’ve seen some pretty lonely and broken women show up atheist/freethinker meetings. Losing community along with religion can hit humans pretty hard at first.

  2. David Marjanović says:

    If Elevator Man had really been an Aspie, he’d be grateful for the anonymity and ability to learn a few more things about human interaction (such as: enclosed spaces are perceived as dangerous; cold-propositioning is perceived as creepy).

    And indeed, we had just such a commenter (I don’t remember his name) in the first subthread: he asked precisely what was creepy about the situation, proposed six possible reasons, and asked which of them fit. As I commented, the first three were clearly spot-on, the fourth IIRC mostly so, and only the last two confused old-fashioned politeness with lack of creepiness or something like that.

    I can imagine one thing which could lead an Aspie to think like the creeps in that thread: if it has never crossed his mind that women might actually be people, if he has grown up believing they’re some kind of robots. But don’t Aspies tend to err in the other direction, ascribing full-blown sapience to anything that looks like it might be alive until proven otherwise? I do.

    So many of the cupcakes seem to believe they have a right to fuck a woman, some woman, any woman. As far as I can see, this only makes sense if women are mass-produced robots. ~:-|

    The elevator man may be a victim of sporadic reinforcement

    Could be (I’ve only been to one such meeting so far). But if so, that would mean he succeeded in inviting someone to his room in the second sentence — I cannot imagine that he has ever succeeded in doing so in an elevator at 4 am.

    And hasn’t he noticed on his own person that only people like Edison* ever get enough sleep at conferences?!?

    * Reportedly only needed four hours of sleep per night….

  3. Carlie says:

    Perfect comments re: Asperger’s. Just to see, I just described the situation to my Aspie (who’s 11) in a very short way. I said that if there was someone another person liked, and they were at a party late at night, and one just said they were really tired and had to go to bed right now: is it polite for the other person to follow them out and ask them to go on a date right now this minute? He said was the person really tired? I said well, they just said they were. So he said no, they should wait until morning until asking.

  4. Paul says:

    * Reportedly only needed four hours of sleep per night….

    Eh, not that impressive. I can easily go on that little or less, if I can take one or two very short (~30 mins or so) naps during the day. Useless when you’re married and working an 8-5 job, though.

    Haven’t followed the elevator man thing. Sounds like more of the mens on the internet trying to treat self-diagnosed Aspergers (what they think Aspergers is, anyway) as carte blanche for being asshats. It’s tired, and it’s disrespectful to Aspies.

  5. Let them titter. It’s playground stuff.

  6. Whoops. delete that post and this one, wrong blog.

  7. David Marjanović says:

    :-D No, don’t delete it! How does one manage to post a comment to the wrong blog? Does that come from using RSS (which makes people comment on the wrong thread of the right blog all the time)? Or is it enough to have, like, 50 tabs open and jump between them twice a minute?

  8. Paul says:

    If I recall correctly, I once posted a comment on Pharyngula that was meant for Dispatches. I sometimes have dozens of tabs open, although I’ve been moving away from that. Never used RSS for commenting, because firing up a good old newsreader makes me sad that Usenet is dead.

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