My conversation with a female rape apologist

**TW for minimizing female-on-male rape, description of non-consent by perpetrator, and denial of realities of rape**

I didn’t think I’d ever end up having to have this conversation with anyone on my FB. But it happened. not only was the OP already not a good thing, implying that women sexually forcing themselves on men isn’t rape because erect and ejaculating penises are involved; a few comments down a woman joins with a comment describing a situation in which she proceeded to sexually touch a man despite lack of positive signals and some negative non-verbal signals, using the word rape in scarequotes. It didn’t get any better from there:
screenshot of a facebook conversation (transcript at bottom of post)
I should have left that conversation at that point (well, I should have left when I said I would). I didn’t, and it went on and got worse; at one point, she decided to interpret my second-to-last comment visible above as me asking a rape victim out of the blue whether they orgasmed during their rape, and tried to accuse me of being turned on by other people’s rapes (and when I corrected the admittedly badly phrased comment to say I meant I had listened to survivors talk about this, she accused me of lying). I did finally leave (and I’m sure the thread is still going on) after being told “Go find a rape victim to drill. Pun intended”.

I don’t know why I’m posting this, other than I guess to document this surreal experience. Because seriously, WTF.

- – - – - – - – - -
Transcript:

Person1: I still suffer a considerable amount of cognitive dissonance over the use of the term “rape” for the act of a woman forcing a grown man to have sex with her — with him becoming aroused, having intercourse and reaching orgasm.
To most young men, tales of the situation probably provoke laughter more than empathy. I have to wonder if that doesn’t cheapen the word.
That it happens, and that the men it happens to are emotionally affected, I have few doubts. But we definitely need some different terminology.

Person2: That is part of the difficulty in men reporting rape. No one believes them.

Person2: I don’t know of a better word for it. Sex without consent.

Jade Hawk: sex without consent is rape. doesn’t matter whether it’s men raping women or women raping men, it’s still rape. it’s the violation of bodily autonomy. Why should we not use the correct term for it?

Jade Hawk: oh and btw, the thing about arousal and orgasms is a common denialist trope targeted at women; because sometimes women, when they’re raped, have orgasms. That doesn’t make it not rape.
Same thing applies to men: eliciting a physical reaction from your nether parts does not constitute consent.

Person3: Yeah, I agree that it’s still rape. It is basically the same violation, even if viewed differently by most men.

Person4: I “raped” my ex at the time. We had just broken up and I was devastated. We rested in bed together after a long fight, sort of cuddling but very cautiously so. I started touching his hair and skin. Trying to be romantic, trying to.show love and change the course. He didn’t move or respond at all.
I somehow found myself giving him.head. he told me I shouldn’t and didn’t respond much other then a moan… half pleasure, half. “Stop it.” He came really hard and curled up in a ball. Moments later he cuddled me tighter and asked why he can’t ever say no to me. The power I felt was very strong and feminine, and very erotic. We stayed apart for about another year, occasionally sleeping together. I brought it up a few months later unsure if I.should feel guilty. He said at the time it felt good but.he didn’t want it, but at present it didn’t bother him. The conversation served.as a segway for some sex and roleplay.
It was wrong of me to ignore his signs even if he didn’t explicitly day no, but we’re back together now and to this day his oral rape is a fond and sexy memory for both of us. It’s the only.time I’ve done that.

Person4:file that more under poor decision making.than.actual rape.. that’s what.he meant when he said I shouldn’t.
And I.don’t.know about ant of you but I have been made very sexually uncomfortable by men and women alike. I.can’t imagine anyone, male or female being relaxed enough to orgasm during a sexual assault. Ever.

Jade Hawk: your failure to imagine something doesn’t constitute a fact or even a valid argument

Person4: I didn’t say it did. I’m speaking personally. Jeez.

Jade Hawk no, “i can’t imagine anyone” is not speaking personally, it’s projecting.
I’m done with this. rape apologia is more than I can deal with today

Person4: No. Its saying.that infant imagine something.

Person4: I can’t

Person4: And who are you to say I condone or sympathize with rape or rapiats?
Because I’m not so much of an animal that even if I’m emotionally distraught if someone touches my.junk I cant help but be turned on? Earth is not some hentai film. We are not ruled by sexual urges.

Person4: We don’t.scream in pleasure during rape. We.scream for.help. now.go.watch.la blue.girl or.some.shit. crazy woman.

Jade Hawk: victims of rape who experience involuntary orgasms are animals ruled by their sexual urges?
“yeah, you’re totes not a rape apologist. and ableist, to boot

Person4: There is no such thing.as involuntary orgasm. Orgasms are a result.of.sexual pleasure.

Person4: She needs to.enjoy.it.to.come. that simple. If it were that easy to.orgasm then.women.wouldn’t complain that they can’t.relax enough in bed to enjoy.sex.

Jade Hawk: ypou’re a rape apologist and science denialist: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1353113103001536

Person4: Jade implying a rape victim enjoys her rape enough to.orgasm is fucking offensive as hell.

Person4: Yup
And.you’re a cunt. There. All your feminist dreams about me.have.come.true.
Now.why don’t.you.go.ask.a.rape.victim if.she.came or not. Insensitive Fuck. Shit .

Jade Hawk I have that’s how I know that this happens. Denialist asshole

Person4: Wow. That’s really insensitive. And your link directed me to a page about pesticides…

Jade Hawk you’re right. me listening to rape victims is super insensitive. [/sarc]
also, if a link to sciencedirect gives you a page on pesitcides, you have a virus problem

7 comments on “My conversation with a female rape apologist

  1. David Marjanović says:

    Jesus Haploid Christ.

    I’ve had orgasms in my sleep while not dreaming. Mechanical stimulation alone, and it really doesn’t take much, is fully sufficient at least for some people!

    On similarly rare occasions, I’ve had extremely uncomfortable orgasms that I didn’t enjoy at all. All else being equal, orgasms and pleasure go together, but not all else is always equal.

  2. David Marjanović says:

    Oh. Forgot the obligatory link to TV Tropes: Double Standard – Rape – Female on male. Scroll down for links to the other “double standard – rape” and double standard – abuse” combinations.

  3. David Marjanović says:

    …I seem to be really effective at killing threads. :-)

  4. An orgasm is not absolute proof of pleasure otherwise women would not experience it during rape. The idea that it cannot be involuntary is therefore total nonsense. It is after all a physical function that can be completely removed from psychological consideration. I think that because Person Four equates orgasm with pleasure that she cannot possibly conceive of a situation where the two are separate. This is a classic example of pre supposing that because a particular experience has not happened to you that it cannot have happened to anyone else either which is completely false

  5. Franklin Percival says:

    If a partner, or I, set(s) a limit on what activities are acceptable in sexual activity, why should that limit not be respected, irrespective of gender or role? To exceed the limit is to my mind, as you also say, to interfere with the autonomy of another. To say otherwise is to place too much faith in people not to take advantage of power dynamics in relationships.

  6. boipower says:

    Is there a way that I could contact you more privately? This is a subject of particular sigifigance to me personally…

  7. Jadehawk says:

    e-mail adress is listed in the side-bar

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